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Representative James P. 'Jim' Moran, Jr.
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Current Office: U.S. House
Current District: 8
Office Seeking: U.S. House
District Seeking: 8
First Elected: 11/06/1990
Last Elected: 11/04/2008
Next Election: 2010
Party: Democratic
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BiographicalVoting RecordIssue Positions
(Political Courage Test)Interest Group RatingsPosition PapersSpeeches and Public StatementsEndorsementsAdditional Biographical InformationCampaign Finances
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Title: MSNBC "Hardball With Chris Matthews" - Transcript
Date: 08/20/2009
Interview
MSNBC "Hardball With Chris Matthews" - Transcript
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
Lets turn right now to Democratic congressman Jim Moran of Virginia and Newsweek investigative reporter Michael Isikoff. Congressman Moran, you first. What does this say to you, reading this new book by Tom Ridge?
REP. JIM MORAN (D), VIRGINIA: I continue to be proud that I consider myself a good friend of Tom Ridges. Hes a thoughtful, credible professional. I dont think the Bush administration deserved to have him among their ranks. And I do think that it was pretty obvious that they were politicizing these threat alert levels, as they were just about everything they did over the eight years. It wasnt a matter of making the country particularly safer, it was a matter of improving Bushs poll numbers. And eventually, they overreached and undid themselves.
MATTHEWS: Mike Isikoff, youre an expert on conspiracies in this administration just past. What do you make of these quotes? I mean, theyre amazing quotes. And you know, when you write a bookas you know, youve written a best-selleryou take great care when you make accusations like this against your colleagues. Look at this. Is this about security or politics, he asked himself, sitting around the table. It seemed possible to me and to others at the table that something could be afoot other than simple concern for the countrys safety.
Hes accusing his colleagues, Rumsfeld and Ashcroft, et cetera, of trying to hype something to help the president get reelected and to keep their jobs.
MICHAEL ISIKOFF, NEWSWEEK: Well, look, the question hes raising there, Was this about politics or security, was a question that everybody in the media and many people in government and politics were raising every time we went through the terror alerts during that period.
Just take a step back and you look at everything that was going on in 2004. I had a top Bush strategist who worked on that campaign who toldwho said last year, You know, that was a campaign we never should have won, an election we never should have won.
Iraq was going south, escalating casualties, the revelations about Abu Ghraib, the revelations in the Senate Intelligence Committee about how the administration had stretched the intelligence in the run-up to the war in Iraq, the 9/11 commission hearings showing how so many people inside the White House were asleep at the switch at the time that the president got the PDB Bin Laden prepared (SIC) to strike the U.S.
What saved the election for George W. Bush in 2004? It was the threat of another terrorist attack and the continuous threat alerts. Now, that is simplythat was the view of inside the Bush campaign itself. It doesnt mean that there werent genuine security fears during this time. There were. But because of the highly politicized atmosphere, because of the track record the Bush administration had demonstrated, particularly in the run-up to the war in Iraq, there were widespread suspicions as to whether or not these constant terror threat alerts were, indeed, genuine or whether they were influenced by politics.
MATTHEWS: And as Secretary Ridge points out in this brand-new bookweve got the advance copyevery time they pushed that panic button and code orange went up, they knew they got more poll voltage out there.
Lets look at the exit polls coming out of 2004 presidential election that makes your point, Michael Isikoff. Nineteen percent of voters considered terrorism the most important issue. And of them, 86 percentthis was a wipeout, this was a shutout, basically, for the president -- 86 to 14 percent on that issue. So every time terror got into peoples heads, it helped the president.
Congressman Moran, it seems to meI even saw another poll, you probably saw it back then -- 49 percent of the country, just about half, said the only guy who could protect them was Bush. So every time that panic button went orange or red even, they gained.
MORAN: But doesnt it remind you of that old story, The boy who cried wolf? Theres only so many times you can do that, and then you lose your credibility. And that was Toms concern. He wanted to maintain the credibility of his agency and of the professionals who were working in his agency, and he understood that as the White House politicized what they were doing, then when they do have a real alert, when it is an orange or red alert, then people are less likely to take it seriously. The country is less likely to respond.
That was Toms concern. And unfortunately, it clearly wasnt the White Houses concern. Their concern was getting this guy reelected, regardless of the fact that they were undermining the credibility of the Department of Homeland Security and really threatening the real security of our nation.
MATTHEWS: OK, lets take a look at this. In August of 2004 -- thats several months earlier than the electionthe terror threat level was raised for five financial institutions in New York, Washington, and Newark, New Jersey. Heres what Tom Ridge said at the time when asked aboutby skeptic about those who suspected that the threat level was being politicized. Lets listen to Secretary Ridge back in August of 2004.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM RIDGE, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: I wish I could give them all top secret clearances and let them review the information that some of us have the responsibility to review. We dont do politics in the Department of Homeland Security.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Mike Isikoff, We dont do it, but others in that Cabinet Room did.
ISIKOFF: Well...
MATTHEWS: Here we have a new book out. I want you to give me a reading on this book. When you pick it up and you find these words and you read in it where he says, lets sayIs this about security or politics? Then he answers his own question, says, I believe our strong intervention saved us from going ahead to this higher brink, but I consider this episode to be not only a dramatic moment in Washingtons recent history but another illustration of the intersection of politics, fear, credibility and security. After this episode, I knew I had to follow through on my plans to leave the federal government.
ISIKOFF: Well...
MATTHEWS: Pretty strong language, I had to quit after I saw the games that were being played.
ISIKOFF: It is, although Im glad you played that clip from August of 04 because I think a lot of us always thought that that orange terror alert, which Tom Ridge totally endorsed, actually did as much to change the momentum of the election as any other single event. That came within days after the end of the Democratic convention. It totally stopped John Kerrys bounce, crushed his bounce coming out of that convention andyou know, and turned an election thatKerry at that point was ahead in the polls, was poised to win, and began the swing back towards Bush.
So Ridge, you know, doesntif you believe that these terror alerts were largely political or had too much politics in it, Ridge doesnt have clean hands here. He was a part of it. Its also worth, you know, pointing out in context that the threat alert that he says he resisted on the eve of the election came right after the release of a new Osama bin Laden tape and the release of another tape by Adam Gadahn, an American al Qaeda follower inwith al Qaeda in Afghanistan, who was warning about blood flowing in the streets.
So there was, in fact, stuff going on that had security people concerned during this time. So I dont think we should completely dismiss...
MATTHEWS: Yes, except in the book...
ISIKOFF: ... everything that was going on.
MATTHEWS: But in the book, Tom Ridgeand I talked to him this afternoon. He stands by this book. In the book, he says that those commentsthe videotape by Osama bin Laden was the same old crap hed been coming out with for years. There was nothing new in there. His hatred of the West and of President Bush was not news, nor was it increasingly threatening.
Congressman Moran, let me read you another quote from this thats
grabbed me. It also seemed possible to me and to others around the table
that was in the Situation Room when they were considering that tape
that something could be afoot other than simple concern about the countrys safety. Thats a very nice way of saying, I think politics...
(CROSSTALK)
MORAN: ... being diplomatic, isnt he?
MATTHEWS: Yes.
MORAN: Well, hes trying to be diplomatic. You know, I think he feels much the way that Colin Powell feels. They wereanyone that had real credibility they were willing to use and abuse to the point that those people lost their credibility. Colin Powell I think lost much of his, unfortunately. He was manipulated by the administration, and its clear that Tom was, as well.
Im sure Tom would wish that he had stood up, but if he had not said what he said, I dont think they would have included him. They would have had the White House spokesperson say something, and they would have let him go. You know, these guys were cutthroat. They had one objective in mind, get the president elected. Everything else was dispensable, including the most credible people in their administration.
MATTHEWS: Mike Isikoff, how many hours do you think will pass before Dick Cheney comes out and dumps on this book?
ISIKOFF: Well, I dont know. Dick Cheney may have other things to
that he wants to dump on right now. Were getting on Monday the release of
the CIA inspector general report, which Im told is going to be devastating
going to have some devastating revelations in it about the interrogation program. I think theres a lot that Dick Cheney is going to want to be rebutting over the next few days. You know, I dont know how much the Ridge thing will factor into that.
But let me just make one more point on the Ridge stuff. You know, just to underscore how heightened and politicized the atmosphere was during that period, I do remember there was actually even suggestions thatyou know, because of the election year threats, there was a memo written that was forwarded to the Justice Department suggesting that the electionyou know, there should be contingency plans for calling off the election in the event of a terrorist attack. And you know, that does give you some idea of some of the thinking that was going on at that time.
MATTHEWS: Well, sometimes I love it when things are what they look like. Congressman Moran, thank you for coming on the show and giving us your reaction to this blockbuster new book by Tom Ridge, the former secretary of homeland security, wherein he argues that his colleagues were ready to hype up the threat to this country on the weekend before the 2004 election, which President Bush won by Ohio. Congressman Jim Moran, thank you, sir. Thank you, Mike Isikoff, as always.
Coming up: As his party plummets in the polls, President Obama takes to the airwaves to fight for his struggling health care reform plan. He talked to Michael Smerconishs radio audience this afternoon. Were going to have Michael on in a moment to talk about what the president said today. Can he get back control of this debate? Weve got Michael Smerconish coming up next.
Youre watching HARDBALL, only on MSNBC.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...
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